ST What would get you so mad that you would walk out of Episode VII?

Leaks can also be a very valuable tool to hype something.
Just because it hasn't happened much with Abrams thusfar, doesn't mean it can't happen. Again, Abrams is just one person. He's working with a completely different set of people on almost every project. Honestly, the director himself only has little influence on how sensitive material is treated.

Heck, Terminator is a similarly giant franchise and the entire damn script got leaked over a year before the film's release.

 

And yet, the Abu Dhabi set pics, the stormtrooper helmet pics, the Kylo Ren pic, the concept art (which MSW actually had before it came online) were all legit leaks. He can't keep track of everything, especially in this day and age of technology.

 

I'm talking more plot-wise things. I get posting pics and some artwork, but plot points? Why would Disney let that get out? With as much info as MSW gives, it just doesn't feel right. And if it was that accurate, why hasn't Disney cracked down on them? Usually studios use their leverage to nip that stuff in the bud, so how does MSW have all this freedom?

 

The information is already out, but very rough. Cracking down on it now would all but confirm the information as legit, and cause it to spread like wildfire. Unless in-your-face documentation of illegal actions is presented (such as waving the actual sheet with Disney/Bad Robot ownership indicated on an Instagram shot), there's no reason to basically confirm this by reacting to it. That's the worst thing they could do.

 

I was afraid of that. I'd rather have it decided one way or the other. One of the best things about places like this is swapping theories with other fans, but instead everyone's parroting only one - and it's not even a well written one. All I can say is, if MSW's guesses are correct, I'll stick with the prequels.

 

That's fairly presumptuous given that you have basically nothing but snippets of coded scene descriptions without any context to go on.
I think there's a fair amount of theory-swapping going on, and the "not well-written theory" you allude to is just what I alluded to above - people are building their own theories based on it, others are disregarding it entirely and going off on other tangents.

Dunno how you can be so down on something just based on a notion and some rough idea of a basic construct of a movie without any details, dialogue, nothing.

 

I always make sure to use the bathroom beforehand and go easy on the beverage (or without) during the film. I learned that lesson the hard way during one of those Pokemon movies that came out around 2000.

 

Han dying. Kylo Ren being some long lost son gone bad. Luke having hardly any screen time. Putting a code in a lightsaber and having it bounce around the galaxy in a message in a bottle type deal. Oh yeah, I can definitely be down on that. I've heard better story ideas in a Creative Writing 101 course.

 

Judging a story before knowing how it plays out is silly, in my book.

"Dude grows up on a farm, repairs an old robot and then gets taken on a joyride by some old geezer. Saves this chick from a guy in a black S+M type outfit. Kisses the chick later, finds out she's his sister even later. A little green munchkin teaches him magic to defeat the S+M dude. Oh yeah that S+M dude turns out to be his father. Messed up, right?"

 

I'll just borrow my nan's spare colostomy bag. Sorted.

 

I just have this problem where I write stories in my head everyday. I'm always tweaking beats so they fit the tone I'm trying to set. These beats just don't feel like Star Wars. Think about ANH and TPM, they both had conflicts that were resolved happily yet set up darker beats for later. Having a downer like Han dying or having his and Leia's son already evil just doesn't jive with the flow of the PT and OT. (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan don't count since they were introduced in the movie they died in. Han is an established fan favorite who's been loved for years. Bringing him back just to kill him off is a cheap grab for emotion that will likely backfire with the average Star Wars fan.) Now, if we were talking about Han dying in Episode 8 or 9 I would be less of a naysayer - but this is the BIG RETURN for these characters that we'd thought we'd never see together again. Can you honestly say the people who just love to watch the movies, who are thrilled to see their old favorites again, will enjoy the ST if Han dies right after he's come back? I don't think so, no matter how heroic, touching, or emotional it might be. After Game of Thrones and everything Joss Whedon's ever done, the killing a main character grab is now in smelly cliche territory. It's soap opera, not space opera.

 

Yes, yes. Nice post.

 

the terminator franchise is nowhere near sw size.

 

Yes, the Terminator franchise isn't as gigantic as Star Wars. Can you move past that and see my point, now?

@ jedi with a TARDIS:

I'm on the other side of the spectrum. In fact, I believe any decent character's arc needs to involve personal loss and hardship. It's classic dramatic storytelling going back to the Greeks. Heck, ANH started out by killing off Obi-wan - who, had you gotten the PT first, would have been a "fan favourite" for 3 movies before that. I don't think it`s fair to compare fairly straightforward "kill off the mentor/old vet to give the young hero more character depth" with Game of Thrones, which kills off protagonists indiscriminately and no regard for classic character arcs.

Star Wars is full of death, and funnily, so is the common denominator in soap and space opera. It was never about a jolly band of heroes that overcomes everything and never suffers any consequences. What you're describing is not a space opera, not even Star Wars, it's a kid's cartoon.

 

It would have to be one of the worst movies i've ever seen to make me walk out. So yeah.

 

There are other factors to consider, though. Ford's age and reluctance to be involved in SW and Kasdan writing. They both want Han to be killed off. Rememer, this was seriously considered for ROTJ, because it creates emotional impact and was only stopped by Lucas. In TFA it will be even more important to create such impact and establish Kylo Ren as a serious threat. I think they are ready to sacrifice one character, played by an actor who wanrs to get out to do that.

 

It would have created suspense (and also anger and annoyance) if Han died in ROTJ, but now it will not create suspense. It's also kind of ridiculous to kill a beloved character just for the purpose of making the audience think a main character could die at any moment. That is a run of the mill TV tactic at this point, and it isn't why any characters die in Star Wars so far. Characters in Star Wars die to move the plot forward. Not to free up an iconic ship for a younger actor to use or to fulfill a contract obligation.

If they do kill off Han to make the big three seem more vulnerable, you can bet they will kill one of them off, and it won't be the female or the black guy. So to fulfill their promise, they can only kill Poe in 8 or 9. It's predictable. Then Disney can still use the Falcon with yet another pilot and have what's left of fandom in the palm of their hands.

Harrison Ford and Kasdan never really understood Han Solo as a character. That his fate is in their hands is really too bad. They really thought he was a worthless person and expendable, where Lucas thought he was a romantic hero with a good heart. I like Lucas' stated plan of having him retired, flipping burgers in the back yard, married to Leia, better. He could just do a cameo and it would be better than being in an awkward Obi-Wan type death, where he sacrifices himself for some new kids but without the necessary motivation Obi Wan had to do so (he was immortal, would become more powerful, and Luke was their only hope).

I'm really considering waiting for digital download since this seems to be the case.

All this talk of human sacrifice has me creeped out.

 

But that's exactly what creates suspense! It is very important to create a feeling that our heroes are in real danger, otherwise the conflict is meaningless and uningaging.

 

I was in a lot of suspense during the Raiders of the Lost Ark truck chase. Nobody I cared about died to make that happen. Well, the German Mechanic seemed like a nice guy. At least he had a good sense of humor. Hitchcock was the master of suspense. Suspense is created when you show the audience something is in motion that could be catastrophic, such as a ticking timebomb hidden under the table while two people are having dinner.

 

If you kill of a new character to keep the old favorites around could kill the trilogy. Han dying would have much greater emotional depth than Rey or Finn dying. I could go either way. Hans death could come across as you described it or it could be a touching scene. As far as the tone there was certain scenes that would have sounded horrific on paper. Luke finding his family burnt to a crisp or Obi Wan cutting of someone's arm. On paper something might sound great but end up terrible and vice versa.

 

How shocked would we have been if the Prequels came out first, then all of a sudden, in ep 4, they kill off Obi-wan out of no where.

No one even bats an eye at that, today

 

Personally I think Star Wars should be a bit more like game of thrones. I think Star Wars is too scared to kill off it main characters. I wouldn't mind if Luke got killed saving someone. But I would probably leave if the stormtrooper doesn't die first. Also if Gwendolyn's is not captain plasma I'll leave. And lastly if kylo ren is related to any of the main trio, I'll leave I want something original.

 

The EU had Chewie killed in the book Vector Prime in 1999 and things got crazy there. Something is going to happen in the ST and people won't like it.

 

I hate when people complain about MSW rumors, because it's pretty much the fact that MSW isn't really good at "selling" people on rumors. I've said it time in and time out, Making Star Wars IS NOT THE MARKETING TEAM. I would hope he wasn't the marketing team, because he's terrible at marketing a film. That's not his job, that's certainly not what he set out to do with leaking TFA's plot, and that certainly not what he's done so far. The movie he describes doesn't sound like Star Wars because it isn't a Star Wars film. It's Star Wars with the witty dialogue and the amazing music and the cool worlds and the emotions present and the brilliant acting and the subtext and the cinematography and the plot and the motivations and the special effects and the props and the costumes all torn out of it. T

The descriptions of just a bare bones plot of the OT and the PT do not even begin to describe just how gutted MSW's overview of TFA is. That's why the concept art rumors sounded better to our ears; they are more visual and are better at giving plot descriptions and scenes and emotions than simple events. It's just a series of facts. Punctual events that happened and MSW using what we humans call "common sense" to piece these things together and call it a plot.

And I don't see why we need Han to stay alive to begin with. It's this sort of rampant fanboyism that, imo, has hurt the MCU. We can't bear to have characters die and stay dead, and that lowers the stakes for the films. We can't bear to have change, that the same characters must always remain the main characters. That Luke can't have anything less than 10 scenes in every film he appears in and one of those scenes needs to be a five minute long lightsaber battle. Luke doesn't even use a lightsaber for almost all of ANH. The pure fact that people get so mad when these two topics are addressed speaks to how powerful those scenes are going to be on the big screen

 

Agreed about the MSW stuff.

I disagree with the last paragraph. The thing is is that that topic is not black and white. People can be satisfied with a character's death. Some of us just don't want it to happen so early. Some of us don't see the point of it happening at all. I don't think that not wanting a character to die is "fanboyism." We have different reasons for feeling that way,.