Saga Who is the Best Lightsaber Duelist in the Saga?

Not who is strongest in the Force
Not who has the most experience
Not who have the most eye opening spins and jumps

But -

What Saber wielding hero or Villain is the most effective overall Duelist of the Saga ?

 

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but I would have to say Obi-Wan as of ROTS. Dooku only beat him because of the force, and Obi-Wan not only beat Anakin (who's power was rapidly increasing), but also Grievous (a renowned Jedi killer) in about 30 seconds. I know Anakin was hindered, but so was Obi-Wan, who was reluctant to fight his former apprentice and was also recovering from Order 66 (as was Yoda).

 

if I go by films alone, and having no knowledge of "so and so beat whoever in this story" and the lightsaber forms, I would conclude Dooku or Yoda to be the ultimate duelists in the saga.

However in ALL fictional VS scenarios the best is truly the whim on the writer writing that particular story. So it's impossible to say who is "the best" at anything really. I believe Lucas says it's Anakin. If that is anything to go by

 

Did you get the sense Palpitine was helping The Count during their duel, especially with that Force push?

 

How are you measuring best? Win vs. Loss column, not having lost a limb(s), most combatants faced, not dead...?

 

Thats what I think makes it an interesting question.

No one correct respose but how each person chooses to look at it.

 

I believe that Palpatine manipulated Dooku into trying to turn Anakin to the dark side during that battle, so Dooku intentionally knocked Obi-Wan out of the fight so that Anakin could be manipulated. That's why Palpatine kindve signalled for Dooku to take Obi-Wan out of the fight. I also believe that Dooku held back during the fight (although Anakin still would have beaten him) and that everything went according to plan for Dooku up until Palpatine had him die.

 

My personal chioce is Obi wan who defeated both the classical duelist Dooku and defeated unsuited, raging, in Anikins body Vader, followed very closely by Mace Windu due to his having created a unique fighting stye, ablebto drain the energy of a Dark side opponent even as strong as Palpitine.

 

She quickly gained the upper hand against Luke. By Episode 9 I expect her to beat Kylo, the Knights of Ren, and Phasma at the same time. Oh, and since she's taking on all the villains by herself, Finn will just repeat the same arc again.

 

Like he hold back when he cut his arm and almost killed him and Obi-Wan if it wasn't for Yoda in AOTC? No, I don't think he was holding back at all against him in ROTS and Obi-Wan lost fair and square.

I believe Anakin is the best dualist and the only reason why he lost aganist Obi-Wan was because of his mental state.

 

In what medium? In the Movies and TCW's Obi Wan had his *** handed to him by Dooku every time.

 

I stand corrected, you are entirely correcr, this is what happens when I respind on my phonevwaiting for a bus.

Obi Wan defeated Maul and Vader, bith very aggressive and skilled duelists was what I had meant to say

Thanks for carching that error for me

 

Wasn't meant as a correction more of a "Hey, what did I miss" so I can go get it/watch it

 

I believe Dooku at least held back to the point to where if given the opportunity, he wouldn't kill Anakin, because I doubt that Palpatine would want one of the best duelists in the galaxy to go all out against Anakin, because it's very risky. I do agree that he wasn't holding back nearly to the extent he was in AOTC.

 

As Labyrinth of Evil puts it:


The greater prize, Sidious had told Dooku during their most recent communication, was Anakin Skywalker.
"Long have you watched him," Dooku has said, repeating words Sidious himself had spoken.
"Longer than you know, Lord Tyranus. Longer than you know. And the time has come to test him again."
"His skills, my lord?"
"The depth of his anger. His willingness to go beyond the Force, as the Jedi know it, and to call on the power of the dark side. General Grievous will activate a special beacon that will call Skywalker and Kenobi back to Coruscant, and onto the stage we will set for them."
But not capture them.
"You will duel them," Sidious had said. "Kill Kenobi. His only purpose is to die and, in so doing, ignite young Skywalker to tap the depths of his fear and rage. Should you defeat Skywalker easily, then we will know that he is not prepared to serve us. Perhaps he never will be prepared. Should he by some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any unnecessary embarrassment, and we will have gained a powerful ally. But above all you must make the contest appear real, Lord Tyranus."
"I will treat it as if it were my crowning achievement," Dooku had promised.

 

I've heard a lot about Labyrinth of Evil, it sounds very interesting, but I don't have the money to buy it.

 

In the ROTS novelization, it's made clear that Dooku's been told that the plan is for Anakin to capture Dooku alive and return him to Coruscant - allowing Dooku to sit out the rest of the war in comfort, then reject the Confederacy and join the Republic/Empire:


"It will be," he said slowly, meditatively, as though he spoke only to himself, "an embarrassment to be captured by him."
The voice that answered him was so familiar that sometimes his very thoughts spoke in it, instead of in his own. "An embarrassment you can survive, Lord Tyranus. After all, he is the greatest Jedi alive, is he not? And have we not ensured that all the galaxy shares this opinion?"
"Quite so, my Master. Quite so." Again, Dooku sighed. Today he felt every hour of his eighty-three years. "It is... fatiguing, to play the villain for so long, Master. I find myself looking forward to an honorable captivity."
A captivity that would allow him to sit out the rest of the war in comfort; a captivity that would allow him to forswear his former allegiances—when he would conveniently appear to finally discover the true extent of the Separatists' crimes against civilization—and bind himself to the new government with his reputation for integrity and idealism fully intact.
The new government...
This had been their star of destiny for lo, these many years.
A government clean, pure, direct: none of the messy scramble for the favor of ignorant rabble and subhuman creatures that made up the Republic he so despised. The government he would serve would be Authority personified.
Human authority.
It was no accident that the primary powers of the Confederacy of Independent Systems were Neimoidian, Skakoan, Quarren and Aqualish, Muun and Gossam, Sy Myrthian and Koorivar and Geonosian. At war's end the aliens would be crushed, stripped of all they possessed, and their systems and their wealth would be given into the hands of the only beings who could be trusted with them.
Human beings.
Dooku would serve an Empire of Man.
And he would serve it as only he could. As he was born to. He would smash the Jedi Order to create it anew: not shackled by the corrupt, narcissistic, shabby little beings who called themselves politicians, but free to bring true authority and true peace to a galaxy that so badly needed both.
An Order that would not negotiate. Would not mediate. An Order that would enforce.
The survivors of the Jedi Order would become the Sith Army.
The Fist of the Empire.
And that Fist would become a power beyond any Jedi's darkest dreams. The Jedi were not the only users of the Force in the galaxy; from Hapes to Haruun Kal, from Kiffu to Dathomir, powerful Force-capable humans and near-humans had long refused to surrender their children to lifelong bound servitude in the Jedi Order. They would not so refuse the Sith Army.
They would not have the choice.


of course, this is all a lie on Palpatine's part.

 

This is very interesting, and re-watching ROTS again makes me wonder what the OT would have been like if Palpatine was telling the truth, and planned on taking Anakin as his apprentice while letting Dooku return to his own life.

Another candidate I have for a good (underrated but definitely not the best) duelist would be Darth Maul. Without even being taken as an actual apprentice and used as an assassin, Maul was able to duel and best both Qui-Gon (one of the strongest Jedi in the order) and Obi-Wan (while still a Padawan, was still relatively skilled), and only lost because of overconfidence. One glaring thing about the duel, in my opinion, is that Maul never really lost the upper hand in the duel.

 

IMO Palpatine originally was planning to maintain the rule of two until Vaders loss on Mustfar. Once he realised that Vader could never become as powerful as Palpable had bragged to Yoda, he decided to relax the rule of two and allow more Sith to exist at one time.

I do agree with you about Mail, he really never lost control until the very end.

I am finding it interesting how this thread is mirroring the films by dissecting the merits of each saber user over time.

 

I actually don't have a problem with Rey being a vessel of the Force and having innate talent. Yoda confirmed this to Luke and I suspect he had a hand in Reys birth.

As far as her dueling ability, she has the raw talent but would probably be bested by the elite duelists such as Dooku until she gains more experience.

I have wondered if Smokes guards were confused by a very powerful Force user who was not using a specific style but fighting by the seat of her pants.

 

I don't mind Rey having great abilities without training, and I dont see anything wrong with her beating Kylo in TFA, but I think it is slightly ridiculous for her to have the advantage against Luke, who beat one of the strongest force users in recent memory, and then had 30 years of experience on top of that.

 

I agree with you in that in a real fight, Luke would have bested Rey. In TLJ Luke was both not really attempting to hurt her and was very raw after having just reconnected with the Force, felt Lia's injuries and seen Kylo and Rey communicating thru their Force bond.

When Rey lashed out at him, he was a bit taken aback and got knocked on his butt. If he had been in real danger, Luke would have easily gotten up or not been down at all.

 

That makes it a little more believable, but I still don't really buy it. Imo it would be like if Floyd Mayweather stopped boxing for a couple of years, and then goes into a boxing match with someone who, while talented, started boxing yesterday.

 

Good point - to me , since Rey had a history of staff fighting as we saw in TFA and probably used her Force abilities without realizing it, as Anakin did when pod racing it works for me.

There is a current boxer who did almost what you said, in his 3rd fight he won a world title. Lomakenko ? not sure of his name but the commentators on HBO s boxing after dark have talked about him. Of course there are so may titles out there in boxing that it gets a bit murky. LOL