PT Why did Qui-Gon bring Anakin to Naboo?

Yeeeeah, except I'm sure Batman trained Robin first before he threw him into a live firefight between the Joker and the Gotham police. To match what Qui-Gon did, this would be like Batman finding some little boy at a karate class and taking him to said firefight pronto with no training whatsoever.

 

Well, most of the Jedi council seemed to doubt the existence of the Sith, so they decided to send a small boy to deal with it. No sweat.

 

Except Qui-gon didn't throw Anakin into a fire fight. Anakin volunteered on his own.

 

He didn't expect Anakin to participate. He just wanted him to stay close and find a place to hide when things got too rough.

 

Really? Was there a scene I missed where Anakin asked Qui-Gon if he could grab a blaster and start shooting away?

 

On the face of it, it might seem ridiculous that Qui Gon would take a kid into a war zone, but when you look at it that's actually pretty much the standard Jedi MO. In the Clone Wars series we see them regularly sending young teenage padawans like Asohka and Varis into battle.

Historically this kind of thing wasn't really that uncommon, even if we might find it questionable today. Knights had squires. British war ships had cabin boys that were just as likely to be killed in battle as anyone else. There was less of an expectation that children needed to be sheltered from the world until they reached adulthood. So Anakin going along with Qui Gon doesn't really bother me all that much in the context of the movie.

 

Of course Anakin is going to present for the conclusion in some capacity. They're not going to just leave him behind, that would be incredibly boring.

I mean, really.

"Okay Anakin, stay here while we leave you behind for the last thirty minutes of the movie. See you in AOTC".

or

"We'll come pick you up for the celebration you'll have no reason to be at. Just stand around, though."

No, it mirrors ANH in that Anakin plays his part in saving Naboo and gets to stand next to the pretty queen, just like Luke saved the rebellion and got a medal from the pretty princess. Yes, Anakin is just a little kid, so his part has to play out differently, and it did. In the end, he is a hero and he gets his reward, and he gets to be part of the celebration.

He gets to be part of the movie's climax and finale, as he should.

You can call Qui-Gon negligent and foolish, and call all of this an OOU answer (it's a movie), if you want. I don't care. You can call it a contrivance (I don't find it to be one), but it's also a necessity.

 

Naboo wasn‘t war zone when Qui Gon boarded the Queen ship back to the planet. It was occupied planet but as they were peaceful planet the Trade Federation just invaded them (there were weak or maybe small? underground ressistance when they back that‘s why they need the help of the Gungans).
There was only one battle and it served as diversion. So war zone is not the word that I would use here. Also, the queen didn‘t say anything to anyone till the reunion on the ship. Qui Gon had no choice at that point even if he suspected that the diversion wouldn‘t go well. He also had no idea that Darth Maul is on Naboo.
In the novelization even is explained that Padme thinks that Anakin wasn‘t at board till they land on Naboo or she would take care of him. But with or without this detail is obvious for me that Qui Gon has no other options: he is sent immediately after the tests to protect the queen (not to fight in a war for her as he noticed).

 

True, calling Naboo a war zone is overstating it a bit.

 

Anakin's age was an issue to me because his inclusion in the third act became a contrivance.
If Qui-Gon had offered an attempt to explain it, "I want you to learn to fight." or "I have a strong feeling that Anakin should go with us."
But nothing.
All Qui-Gon wants is for Anakin to stay safe. That is it.
Since that is what he wants, he should have left Anakin behind.
Qui-Gon being reckless is one thing, but taking Anakin into battle with the only goal that he hide and be safe isn't reckless, it is nonsensical.

And it isn't just Qui-Gon, neither Obi-Wan nor Padme make any comment on Anakin being there.
And Obi-Wan has not been shy to question his master before, nor has Padme. But nothing.
As I've said, the film hopes that the audience doesn't notice or doesn't think too much about it.

As for danger, pod racing is dangerous yes.
But take an ace F1 driver and drop him in the middle of the battle for Mosul.
Would the fact that he is a good racer give him an huge advantage to survive a battle?
Not really.
Beyond the racing, Mos Espa seemed largely safe. I didn't see loads of gunfights in the street, bodies everywhere.
The wastes are dangerous, sand people and worse. The cities are safer.

@DARTHLINK

Totally agree, Robin spent several months in training before going out on missions in most comics I've read.
The one exception is Frank Millers ASBAR, where Batman basically kidnaps a 12 year of Dick Grayson, who just had his parents killed in front of him. Tells him that he is drafted as a soldier into his "Crusade", leaves him in the Bat-cave, surrounded by weapons and says that if he gets hungry, he should kill some rats and eat them. And the only reason Dick isn't forced to eat rats is that Alfred takes pity on him and gives him some food. Something Batman is upset about.
In short, this version of Batman is a deranged psycho who loves violence and loves to hurt people.
As Linkara called him "Crazy Steve".

@Torib

Again this reasoning might work if Qui-Gon had said that this was his intention.
That he brings Anakin to battle as a start of his training or something.
But the only thing Qui-Gon wants is for Anakin to hide and stay safe.
Since that is his goal, why bring him to battle?
Leave him somewhere safe, that fits his stated goal much better.

Plus, Anakin is the chosen one, the most important person alive. Why risk his life for no reason?

@CT-867-5309

To me, ANH was just better written and did a much better job of setting up Luke taking part in the final battle.
First, Luke is older and able to make his own choices.
Two, we have dialogue earlier in the film that sets up Luke as a pilot and a pretty good one. So he has some experience and knows what he is doing.
Three, character, Luke is idealistic, dislikes the Empire and wants to fight the good fight.
So that he joins with the rebels fits his established character and that he is able to fly the X-wing is explained by him being called a pilot by both Obi-Wand and Biggs and Han says that Luke is pretty good in a fight. This also explains why the rebels accept him, Biggs vouched for him.

Anakin in TPM is there because the plot needs him to, no reason is even attempted.

Try this, imagine ANH exactly as it is now but with a nine year old Luke. Would it work?
To me, no.
Imagine TPM as it is but have a 16 year old Anakin. Would it work?
To me, yes.

Except Qui-Gon doesn't know what the situation is on Naboo.
All he knows is a message, that might have been fake, that spoke of a massive death toll.
He knows that the whole planet has been invaded by a big army so any safe zones are unlikely.

Take France in WW2, it was occupied. Now imagine that you are coming in with a small military force with the intent of overthrowing the Nazi occupation. Would you think that there might be fighting involved? Yes.

Also, as far as he knows, he will face the following once he goes back to Naboo.
1) The blockade, "of deadly battleships" as the crawls puts it.
And Qui-Gon knows what happened the last time they tried to run it. They got shot up pretty badly.
2) A massive droid army.
3) A possible sith Lord, one that forced Qui-Gon to run away the last time they fought.

Unless Padme intends to surrender as soon as she comes back, Qui-Gon knows that the TF will come after her and there will be a fight. If Padme does intend to surrender, then him coming with her is very dumb as he will get locked up as well and possibly killed. The TF tried it before.
If Padme does intend to fight or otherwise resist, again he knows that there will be a battle.
So Qui-Gon KNOWS that he can expect a lot of fighting once on Naboo. Assuming he even gets through the blockade.
He is also there to find out more about the possible Sith Lord. The sith are the Jedi worst enemy and he knows a little of how skilled Maul is.
So having him do all of that plus looking after a nine year old kid, that is rather dumb.
And that neither he nor the council apparently considers this doesn't make it less so.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

The example of France is irrelevant here, I think. The whole point of the Naboo crisis is that the Trade federation avoided in all the possible ways to make Naboo a war zone. That‘s why they captured and didn‘t kill its governors, that‘s why they choosed to participate in the bargain as they thought there would be no ressistance and so on. It was a blockade but this is not exclusively millitary act. The people was put in detention camps as they are refuguees in their own country. Paradoxically the only battle was iniciated by the Nabooans (i.e. the Gungans on the ground and the pilots in the space) and again, Qui Gon didn‘t know about it when he boarded the ship. He must protect the queen but at that point hide her was more probable thing to do, so again, no war.

 

Samuel Vimes While Qui Gon isn't explicitly allowed to train Anakin, that's pretty clearly his intention judging by his words on the lamding platform. He tells Anakin to follow him and watch what he does. He's unofficially taking him under his wing as his apprentice. And really an apprenticeship is just like job shadowing. But that means you have to actually be there. Just as squires or cabin boys would be exposed to combat from a young age even if they weren't necessarily expected to participate in the fighting.

 

When he decided that he should help Qui-gon and Obi-wan, who were too busy fighting Maul to notice a few Droidekas roll in, by ordering Artoo to power up the N-1 so that he could use the ship's weapons. The moment he did that, he volunteered to fight.

 

I won't dispute that ANH is better written and more natural.

One thing you're ignoring is that the events in TPM don't play out the way they do in ANH, so Anakin doesn't need the same background that Luke had in ANH. It's not required.

First, Qui-Gon never intended for Anakin to join the space battle (that's what we're asking, why Qui-Gon brought Anakin to Naboo). I'm not sure Anakin intended to join the space battle, as he gets there as a result of an accident, haphazardly pushing buttons in the hangar until he activates the auto-pilot which takes him into space. Once he gets there, he decides to stay. Because this a movie, and he's a hero.

Second, Anakin doesn't do what Luke did. Luke flies with confidence and competence. Anakin, like a nine year old who doesn't know what he's doing, bumbles through the battle and basically destroys the droid control ship on accident. Luke strafes the Death Star and engages in dogfighting, Anakin tries spinning because that's a good trick. Luke, on advice from Obi-Wan, lets go and uses the Force to destroy the Death Star. Anakin accidentally enters the hangar of the droid control ship, basically crash lands, and then once R2 gets things working again, fires torpedoes without knowing what he was doing, and just happens to hit the ship's power generators. He even goes "whoa!" when he fires the torpedoes, and "oops" when they hit the generators. Anakin doesn't need to know anything to do all that, because he is literally a little kid mashing buttons. He behaves pretty much like a kid who doesn't know what he's doing, not like a good pilot who knows what he is doing.

It wasn't ANH exactly, so I don't have to imagine ANH with a nine year old. TPM plays out differently, it plays out basically the way it would if a nine year old were in the seat of a cockpit. Is it lame? Yes.

 

I don't think it's lame so much as it's just sort of silly and childish, which is something I really like about TPM's tone compared to the other movies. I wouldn't like it if all the movies went as far as TPM did in its tone, but they don't, and it's good to have some variety, I think. TPM's extremely lighthearted tone also serves to starkly amplify the sense of an utter descent into darkness that occurs across the trilogy culminating with the climax of ROTS.

 

Why did Qui-Gon bring Anakin to Naboo?

Why does anyone do anything?


"We have searched you out because we wish to form an alliance..."

The talking decoy is interrupted.

 

We have a teenager who's never left the planet yet he's able to pilot a starfighter efficiently in a space battle. Sorry, but questioning everything and grasping at straws can be done in all the movies.

 

Where is it said he has never left the planet?
He has not travelled in hyperspace yes but that is not the same as not leaving the planet.
You can fly around the planet or in the same star system without using hyperspace but that is still leaving the planet.

Two people call Luke and pilot and a pretty good one at that.
His experience seems to be with small fighter type craft, which is what he flies in the film.

So that he is able to do this and do it well, is established earlier in the film.

@Torib

But he also tells Anakin to find a safe place to hide and stay there.
Plus, as I've said, Qui-Gon has no idea what the situation is except that a battle is very likely.
Again if the blockade is still there and blows up their ship, how does that train Anakin?
And Anakin is the most important person the galaxy in his view. Gambling with his life seems not smart.

And, if we look at this logic of Jedi taking young kids to battles to train them and what not.
In AotC, when Mace takes all the Jedi he has to Geonosis, did he bring any 9-10 year old kids?
I certainly didn't see any.
So why didn't he?

And say he did bring a bunch of young kids to the battle on Geonosis, would that work in the film?
I doubt it.
First I think bringing a bunch of kids to this battle would diffuse the tension that is building.
Second, would we see any of them get killed?
If yes, that might have made the film not PG. If not, that might have stretched things.
We see loads of adult Jedi get killed but all the kids are fine.

@CT-867-5309

I understand why Lucas wanted a young Anakin in TPM, to make the separation from his mother a big deal. If he had been older, that might not have left such a mark. And the mother worked well and I could see that he missed her and that it bothered him.

But to me, it had several drawbacks, for one you had to recast the character of Anakin in the next film.
And for TPM, his inclusion in the story after Coruscant becomes a contrivance and had it been the only contrivance, then it might not have bothered me.

But it is just one of so many contrivances.
First the blockade, when Padme and co leaves, they have no idea it is gone. But they never talk about it or have any kind of plan how to deal with it. And when they get there, it is conveniently gone.
Two, the Naboo fighters. They are just there, fueled, armed and ready to go. In the palace the TF control and have controlled for days at least. Also convenient.
Third, Anakin is there, he hides inside the ship, starts mashing buttons and manages to blow up the TF ship.

My suspension of disbelief is not an infinite pool, do too much and it will shatter. And it did here.
Plus him being there also didn't help the tension. The film is building to a climax and tension is rising.
But Qui-Gon apparently think that his two missions, protect Padme and find out about Maul, are so easy-peasy that he can bring along a little kid with no worry.

To sum up, all stories are dictated by what the writer needs to happen, I get that.
But if events are too obviously dictated by plot or story requirements, then it can bother me.
Battlefield Earth is probably one the worst examples of this, with cave-men flying 1000 year old Harrier jets.
And the OT is not without issues like this, like C3PO being on Endor for no apparent reason.
But this did bother me more than that.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

In response to the original question:

 

"Biggs is right. I'm never going to get out of here."

"No. Not unless you can alter time, speed up the harvest or teleport me off this rock."

"Owen, he can't stay here forever."

I could even mention what's said in the Biggs deleted scene, which supports my argument.

The whole issue with Luke is that he's never left home. Tatooine is all he knows. He's stuck there and wants to leave.

He's flown skyhoppers, which are airspeeders. Flying through canyons and within the atmosphere is not the same as space flight (not to mention space combat).

So that he is able to do this and do it well, is established earlier in the film.[/quote]

He's called a good pilot, that's it. To most people and those that take it for what it is and don't grasp at straws (which is my point) that's enough information to suspend one's disbelief. But if you want to dissect it, there's a lot of information supporting the fact that he never left Tatooine, let alone fly a starfighter (which he doesn't even have).

 

Hell, Red Leader (Pops) asks if Luke has been checked out on flying an X-Wing. He doesn't want someone who doesn't know his ass from his elbow, flying out there and getting someone killed. Biggs has to cover for Luke by exaggerating a bit. But yes, Luke has no actual combat experience. Shooting at Stormtroopers and manning a quad laser is nowhere near the same thing as going one-on-one with a TIE Fighter.

 

Red Leader is "Dave". Gold Five (last of the 3 Gold Squadron pilots in the attack run, to die) is Pops.

In the newcanon ANH novelisation, Luke gets a bit of simulator time before the battle. He astonishes the people supervising it with how well he does.

 

Interesting. I read somewhere that when he did the simulator, he died hundreds of times.

 

He dies a few times - the simulator is unbeatable - but the number of starfighters he overcomes before "dying" goes up fast.

 

This is much like the Anakin question in that in both cases I think in terms of these kinds of movies enough relevant information was given to cover the basics.

If one applies the same standards then Luke should never have been flying the X-Wing.

It's ludicrous in the same way that so many things in the movies are if you want them to be.

Simple.

He no Qui-Gon and readily seen in the movies.