Why should an audience have to

Do you do that with a lot of hatred in your heart? Or is it justifiable homicide?

 

Ah, yes, Jedilane, but if you were to try to do the same thing in Star Wars Galaxies, it would be a great and grievous crime!

 

Killing Jar-Jar because he annoys you is a world apart from killing enemies who are trained to kill you in a game.

 

All this self-righteous moral aggrandizing is proof positive that TPM sucks ass. The lack of a good defense is resultant in a halfhazard and irrational offense.

For example: "You hate Jar Jar? It's not his fault! You like cartoons showing Jar Jar get hurt? You're just a BAD, EVIL person."

What kind of debate tactic is this??? By that same token, enjoying Jar Jar's antics during the Gungan battle scene is just as offensive. Is his life not in danger the entire time?

I hearby declare that all "gushers" who laughed at Jar Jar's pratfalls during the final battle have some sick, twisted psychological desire to see pain inflicted on a fictional caracter.

See how this works?

 

Yeah, now you can rest easy knowing that you not only should feel good about hating Jar-Jar, but there probably isn't any real reason to like TPM in the first place.

 

but there probably isn't any real reason to like TPM in the first place.

I disagree. The duel kicked major arse.

 

Huh? Gomer, do you see the point or not? I'm not sure where in my message I suggested that anyone should feel good about hating anything.

 

"What kind of debate tactic is this???"

Ya know, it is POSSIBLE to have a discussion without it being a DEBATE.

(sigh)

 

And it is possible to have a debate without being pi$$y, inflammatory, or otherwise unpleasant.

 

Stryphe, was that directed at me? Oh, you cheeky monkey

I don't think I was being any more inflamatory than than anyone else, but if it was viewed that way I do apologise.

But anyway, can anyone else see the point that being intolerant of Jar Jar isn't exclusively limited to not liking his character, but also extends to any enjoyment or humor you may derive from watching him in danger in the actual film?

 

Stryphe, was that directed at me?

No, just a general comment.

But anyway, can anyone else see the point that being intolerant of Jar Jar isn't exclusively limited to not liking his character,--

I think this debate/discussion/argument (choose one), is far too silly to have any real valid points one way or the other. For a brief time I almost felt this debate had some good points, but then I sobered up.

 

Our natural tendency is to loathe those who don't "fit in" with everyone else, which is obviously wrong. Whether he meant to or not, GL created a character that is just like people who are shunned by their peers.

You aren't automatically bad just because you find JJ annoying or dislike his antics. However, it's demonstrates your intolerance if you hate him (a fictional character, no less!) just because he "annoys" you.

Qui-Gon demonstrates how we should treat people we view as "lower" than ourselves. Even though it was obvious JJ wasn't too bright or especially worthwhile, Qui saw him for what he was (a good-natured guy who tries his best to help out) and took him along on his journeys.

That's how a "true Jedi" really acts.

 

Didn't Qui Gon ask jar jar if he was brainless? Sounds like a real jedi there.

 

Not to mention Ben's "Pathetic lifeform comment." Qui-Gon took JJ along with him, because JJ was about to be killed, all because he (QGJ) intemmidated him into taking him into taking him to the Gungan city. QGJ wasn't heartless enough to lead someone into death and leave him there.

Also, has it occurred to anyone who think JJ haters are intolerate that it isn't JJ they hate, but rather his appearance in the movies? They see this goofy alien pop up and think "What, he's ruining the film! Why do the cool character (QGJ, Maul) have to die and leave this annoying guy alive? If they're going to kill anyone, kill this guy so I can enjoy the rest of the PT!" From my experience of JJ haters, that more apply describe them. They don't want JJ to die because he's goofy, they want him to die because he ruins their favorite movie series and because he isn't real, so his death would be meaningless. It's not like they want the actor to die so GL will write JJ out of the PT.

(Can't believe I'm trying to reason with these people. Stupid thread anyway...)

 

stone_jedi:

True, he let a little frustration show through. The important thing is that he didn't let his annoyance affect how he acted towards JJ.

Stryphe, I said Qui acted like a true Jedi. Obi-Wan was still a young apprentice.

What I don't understand is why people can't live with characters they don't like. Can't they dwell on what they enjoyed, rather than what they didn't? It all seems too pessimistic to me.

Can't argue with your last sentance, though.

 

I can understand that Qui tolerated him, but that's about it. He treats jj like a kid through most of the picture, with good reason. First he calls him brainless, then mocks him in Watto's store, telling him not to touch anything (which jj routinely ignores), then scolds him for stealing the fruit and almost getting them discovered, then snags his tongue for annoying him while they are eating.

If that's how we should treat people "lower" than ourselves, it's a pretty bad example set by a "jedi".


EDIT- I also agree with your last sentence D_S. Maybe you should take the advice you gave me yesterday and quit banging your head against the wall!

 

So why do people follow his lead?

At least Qui-Gon came around after his initial impatience.

 

"Qui-Gon came around"? You mean when he reached Coruscant and then just flat ignored JJ for the rest of the film?

(Stryphe rubs swore head)

 

Soon after he initially dismissed him, the Force told him that he shouldn't underestimate him, and it is after that point when Qui-Gon started talking about his "purpose" to Obi-Wan.

 

If I'm understanding the part you're talking about, it's right at the beginning, when Qui saves jj from getting killed, right? Then what about the rest of the movie that I explained above? Or after they leave Tatt and Qui just completely ignores jj?

the Force told him that he shouldn't underestimate him

Don't seem to remember that being fleshed out in the movie. Hmmm...


BTW, here's some Aspirin D_S. Save me some please.

 

One day, you guys will realise that there is a whole lot of unexplained subtext that Lucas actually expects you to figure out on your own.

And you say Qui-Gon "ignored" Jar-Jar after they left Tattoine? When was Jar-Jar trying to communicate with him after the left Tattoine? Or are you considering his lack of dialogue with Jar-Jar as being ambivilant towards him?

 

And you say Qui-Gon "ignored" Jar-Jar after they left Tattoine? When was Jar-Jar trying to communicate with him after the left Tattoine? Or are you considering his lack of dialogue with Jar-Jar as being ambivilant towards him?

Hey, you're the one who said after QGJ did all those "mean" things (that S_J pointed out), QGJ "came around." I was just pointing out what "came around" then obviously looked like.

One day, you guys will realise that there is a whole lot of unexplained subtext that Lucas actually expects you to figure out on your own.

Yeah, I find that when I watch TPM standing on my head after having consumed a bottle of voka, I see all sorts of "unexplained" subtext.

 

You see? You can do it.

 

Some people are just better drunk.

 

If this subtext doesn't exist then how does it happen that I have written things on other message boards months before coming to tfn that say the same things as other people? I have never spoken to these people before in my life, but we got the same "delusionary" ideas from TPM?