Yoda Teetering on the Dark Side Too?

The Jedi kill the Sith, but they don't kill out of anger even when that anger is rightous indignation.

 

Unless they hail from Korun Hal and their name happens to be Jedi Master, Mace windu.

 

Oooooooooooooops.

 

Nah, then they try to and get launched out of a window.

 

I believe that Yoda was teetering on the "dark side" when he had appeared at Palpatine's quarters.

He seemed to believe that violence was the only way to solve his problems. And I don't recall him defending himself against Palpatine's guards. He had broke into the Emperor's office and attacked the guards first. And he had deliberately appeared at Palpatine's office with the express intent to kill the latter.

And earlier in the movie, Ki-Adi had proposed that the Jedi consider removing Palpatine from office. Mace warned that this would be a dangerous move and added that they would also have to take control of the Galactic Senate. At first, Yoda warned that such a path would be dark. But in the end, he had agreed with Mace and Ki-Adi:

MACE WINDU: I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi. The dark side of the Force surrounds the Chancellor.
KL-ADI-MUNDI: If he does not give up his emergency powers after the destruction of Grievous, then he should be removed from
office.
MACE WINDU: That could be a dangerous move ... the Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate in order to secure a peaceful transition . . .
KL-ADI-MUNDI: . . . and replace the Congress with Senators who are not filled with greed and corruption.
YODA: To a dark place this line of thought will carry us. Hmmmmm. . . . great care we must take.

Yes, the three Council members believed that they were acting for the good of the Republic. But I believe that they had forgotten the old adage that some actions of "good intent" end up leading toward a road to hell.

 

I guess you missed the part where they moved to attack him.

 

And I wonder what those guards would have done, if Yoda just strolled on by

 

Yoda wasn't going to take control of the Senate. He was just there to eliminate a threat to everyone. He'd let the Senate sort its own self out trusting Bail Organa, Mon Mothma and Padme Amidala to take matters into hand.

 

Also, when Mace is referring to "taking control of the Senate" he is speaking in the purely temporary sense. The Jedi would maintain order in the Senate until nominations and an election took place.

 

Both Yoda and Mace were determined to end the Sith threat. Palpatine, the supreme chancellor, who had been collecting more and more power to himself, was discovered to have actually been Darth Sidious. The blockade of Naboo, the clone wars, everything was a plan to gain galactic dominating power. All the lives lost and affected by this Sith Lord should leave any Jedi with only one option in dealing with him.

Yoda to Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Destroy the Sith, we must."

Mace to anyone within earshot: "I'm going to end this, once and for all."

Does wanting to end tyrannical rule constitute a leaning towards the dark side?

In my opinion, no.

 

I just watched the scene. First, Yoda entered Palpatine's office without permission or an invitation. The guards turned to see who had entered the office and readied their weapons. Yoda knocked them unconscious.

From what I had just scene, Yoda was still the aggressor. He was the aggressor, because he had entered Palpatine's office without permission or an invitation.


You guys are merely making excuses for the Jedi's actions, because they're the good guys. In fact, whenever someone brings up the mistakes or questionable actions of the Jedi, someone always have to make excuses for them. Why? Why is it so hard to consider the possibiity that the Jedi were far from perfect. Many keep saying that they understand that the Jedi are not perfect. But when someone points this out with a specific action or decision, someone makes up an excuse for them.

 

Because the tactical mistake that going to confront Palpatine was doesn't mean it was immoral. It also ends up being key in causing Yoda to understand that the Jedi won't win by the stroke of a Lightsaber or use of the Force.

Their mistake was trusting Palpatine and allowing Anakin to see him. They also should have estalished their temple in a place that wasn't the heart of the Republic or at the least had temples on more remote places like Dagobah so they could use things like the Dark Side cave to illustrate to Jedi like Anakin the dangers of the Dark Side as well as to illustrate that they are not the Republic.

 

Did you really think the guards were just going to let him slip by and confront Palpatine? They knew about the Purge. They knew that the Jedi were "enemies of the Republic." Why would they let Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi in the order, mosey on by to have a word with Palpatine? Should Yoda have just said, "Oh, hey Guards. I'm here to see the Emperor. A few words we must have." Come on. Yoda knew full well that pretty much everyone Palpatine surrounded himself with were trained in combat to protect their Emperor. They would have attempted to take him out if they had the time to.

 

You don't have to be perfect to be good. The Royal Guards were going to attack him, but he pushed them out of his way without killing them. Yoda's come to chew bubblegum and kick ass and he's all out of bubblegum.

 

EXACTLY! This is what is so lame about the "Mace teetering on the darkside" argument. It's a freaking joke. Here are the events:

1. Anakin tells Mace that Palps might be the Sith Lord they are looking for
2. Mace gathers some support and confronts Palps with lightsabers blaring
3. Anakin's prediction comes true with Sidious brandishing his RED lightsaber

Just because Mace turned on his lightsaber first does not mean he's teetering on the dark side. Yoda turned his on first, too. If you read into who turns on their lightsaber first as being a dark side move, then you're silly. The Jedi almost ALWAYS turn theirs on first.

Mace was NOT a tormented soul. Mace was NOT having emotional problems. Mace was NOT teetering on the dark side. He went to arrest the chancellor, got in a fight, won, tried to finish it, and got caught off guard by Anakin. That's all that happened.

 

Mace didn't win that fight. Palpatine had that all set up. He knew Anakin was going to show up there and do what he did. He said to Anakin through the force "Of course you realize, if the jedi kill me.....all hope for saving her will be lost." So no Mace didn't beat Palpatine...

Also nothing has been shown Yoda was teeter tottering on the darkside either. Mace was pretty quick to bring up the jedi taking over the senate. Yoda cautioned him to be careful with what he was getting at.......

 

Did he know the Jedi would win because Goldleader and Wedge knocked out the DS 2 power regulator and then shoot out the main power generator?

What did Yoda foresee?

 

You don't have to be a tormented soul to get angry. Mace had fear. He feared change. He feared the Republic falling. He feared that the Sith could not be stopped. He had anger towards Palpatine for his role in all of this. And he might have hated him for what he had done. Palpatine goades Mace into changing his mind.

"Mace was going to do the right thing by arresting him, but after Palpatine does the lightning, he changes his mind."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 204.

And that is where Mace is wrong and where he fails. He is not a dark sider, but he is close to such a situation.

 

No specifics, but in the RotS novel he realizes he can't beat Sidious and

"The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not
be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker
their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had
become the dark's own weapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope of the
galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him. Hmmm, Yoda
thought. A problem this is . . ."

 

This directly conflicts with what the film says on the matter. The high council members decided amongst themselves to take control of the Senate without consulting Bail, Mothma or Amidala for their input.

QFT.
That is exactly what happened onscreen.

I have never been shy about smashing on the Jedi's mistakes. And as far as I'm concerned, Sidious said it best when he told Vader to: "Let them bury their heads in the sand and atone for a thousand years of self-absorbtion." (or something close to that)

 

So are Jedi never supposed to fight the Sith?

 

Couldn't that have been a recollection of something Palpatine said to Anakin earlier?

 

"O.K., well, this sequence always started out with Mace, uh, overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber." - George Lucas

 

Sure, Uh, George.... sure it did.

Kick to the Grill = overpowering... according to Lucas.


At best it was a lucky-shot.

 

Whatever it was, Mace kicking the Dark Lord of the Sith in the face is awesome.