ST George Lucas and the Mystery of the Treatment

Personally, I disagree a bit. While his overall vision and overarching story of the OT is just about flawless - I think that the PT's problems stem from even as far back as the story and vision. To me, you don't make a trilogy that much worse ( in my opinion ) to the first trilogy, without having multiple fundamental issues. People like to say "the biggest problem with the PT simply was...." is looking at it narrow mindedly. It's hard to say any one two or three things was the sole problem with those movies. Even basic concept like Anakins age which would come almost at the earliest point in development were a problem to me.

Not looking to restart a PT argument as much as I am just stating that George could have derailed the films even involved at that level, I'm not saying he would have - he may have had some awesome ideas for them. But I'm glad things worked out the way they did and am thankful to george letting that happen the way it did. He should feel proud that the franchise is in the right hands and that someone is a big fan of George and I'm confident he will bring the best of George to the table and add his own personal trademark to it. I cannot wait for this movie - it's going to knock it out of the park. - all you need to do is have an open mind , and just let it in

 

I edited my post. Again. I'm an idiot. Although my cat just sneezed and his spittle flew on my hand.

 

Between those two options, I gladly take the Warsified of Star Wars. I don't want Trekky touching Star Wars. And I like Star Trek. Just SW should never be anything like it

 

I think your last statement is not universally accepted <cough> Jar-Jar <cough>. But what I meant by that is that it is creative suicide to legally commit to such tight restrictions on the development of a movie. Often ideas on paper don't work out as you try to move to a script, or to actual production. It would be insane to make such a commitment.

 

Let's just make it clear, Howard was the only one attacking the prequels and George in that interview (Robin and the rest of Howard's gang didn't say anything about that...it was all Howard). He seemed intent on trying to get JJ to admit that the prequels suck and that Lucas shouldn't be anywhere near a Star Wars production. Bravo to JJ for stopping Howard dead in his tracks.

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This is key. With all of the deep psychoanalysis going on regarding his statements in that interview (or the few that they have squeaked out), it is super important to remember that Lucas was under no illusions when he sold his company. He knew others would be making the movies; it's not a case where it was pulled away from him in a hostile corporate takeover and he sits resenting what happened.

 

I think the new info from Empire shows that we've all probably been played by misdirection to a very significant extent, and I think that what I suggested earlier is probably true. JJ decided to use George's ideas anyway, which is why someone like Harrison said that George was involved. It also explains the stuff Jett said about them talking on the phone all thr time.

Hell, George himself probably doesn't realise how much the movie follows what he wrote.

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But if what George said and what JJ said all meshes together, it went down this this:

Lucas gave his treatments to Disney when he sold. Then Disney decided before they had a director that they wanted to go in another direction with the story from what George came up with. Then JJ came aboard. He and Kasdan came up with their own story.

If this scenerio is true, it would be likely that Disney told JJ he had to work with Kasdan/Arndt to come up with something new on their own. Even if JJ was told what Lucas' story was, he still couldn't have used it because Disney would just reject it if he tried.

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Not necessarily. There's multiple accounts of them talking on the phone constantly. There's also the point to be made that JJ wouldn't sign unless they gave him creative freedom. Also remember that knowing what we now know, JJ has done nothing but praise GL, it is Disney that supposedly dropped the treatments. I think JJ arrived after Disney wanted to go in a different direction, then he and Kasdan devised a new story inspired by what George came up with. Remember JJ's surprise when George wasn't credited on the poster, and his insistence he will be in the film?

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I still think the most likely scenario is that they mined Lucas' outlines for usable ideas, built Arndt's treatment around them, then Abrams broke it down again with Kasdan.

 

All of this sounds ideal, to be honest, George's excellent ideas refined by JJ and LK. It's what's always worked best-as seen by ANH, ESB and ROTS, which was the prequel where GL got the most help. JJ knows what it takes to make a huge movie, so that just adds to his respect for GL. And I expect Rian to take it further.

This issue is settled business to me now thanks to JJ and Harrison's comments. I feel very confident now that they have used a good amount of GL's concepts in TFA, probably as much as he would have stuck with himself. All movies change from the treatment stage to the shooting stage.

 

Yes, as long as they have kept Vader's grandchildren in the movie. The key word here is grandchildren plural. We know with almost certainty that Kylo Ren is his grandchild. But if Rey is not, then that makes Kylo the only one. George is adament his treatment included grandchildren plural. It is important since the villain is one, that we also get one as a hero or else the Skywalkers have a disgrace as the only grandchild. Not much of a good legacy there.

If kylo is the only one, that is a pretty big departure just because of the importance it is omitting.

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I think you're right and I hope that's exactly how it went down, and JJ has made an attempt to tell the story at least in the same vein as GL's treatments, and try to capture the essential story elements. I am confident that TFA will be a great movie, I just worry that it won't be a great Star Wars movie, because it will be missing the GL effect. Star Wars has never been about excellent dialog and great acting, it's about the story; I hope that JJ is able to capture that spirit and include some of the humor and fun of the rest of the movies, and not make it all gloom and doom. And for those that dislike the prequels, because "it wasn't Star Wars" and Anakin was too whiny or they didn't like a character, I'd ask if they ever saw the original movies, because they are filled with a whiny farmboy and obnoxious characters. My dad feels about Jabba about the same as most people do about Jar Jar. But whatever you like or dislike, it was Star Wars, because it came from the mind of GL - it meshed together. I love all the movies - yes, even the prequels; I've never loved Star Wars more than watching the prequels with the kiddos. Guess who their favorite character is? Jar Jar

 

I didn't know about this, when did JJ say that? Any particular interview you can point me to? Thanks.

 

From the EW.com article where they talked to George, JJ, and Kathleen Kennedy.

JJ himself was surprised it wasn't on there & insisted it would be in the film. I think this all points to JJ working George's ideas and points into the script despite Kennedy's decisions before he arrived.

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Ah, thanks!

 

Check out this documentary from when "Menace" came out. Everyone around Geroge saying it was a 9 Part Saga all along. As for these new interviews, it's disappointing he feels the way he does. I honestly wanted him to embrace the movie but it feels like he's distancing himself. I will wait to see what happens once the movie comes out and he comments.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=200&v=G2kWQoL7pKs

(The Story of Star Wars 1999)

 

I don't agree with you, but well argued.

 

I would feel so much less conflicted about TFA if I just knew that at least SOME part of what Lucas wanted is in there. I'm not sure if anyone else feels that way, but that's how I feel. It could be the greatest movie I see in the next ten years, but if I feel like TFA isn't even a little bit at all what Lucas would have done, it's not the same Star Wars I grew up with and loved, Episodes 1-6, since I love the entire saga equally up until this point. I'm already preparing for a great departure in my mind because I don't expect necessarily that I will be able to put TFA on the same pedestal as the first six Star Wars movie. It may just have to be enough for me to think it's better than every other non-Star Wars movie for me, but not better than any previous Star Wars movie. That will still be great, but it's not quite the same as before.

If Lucas sees the movie and is like, "Ok, they definitely changed a fair number of things, but I was surprised there were a lot of themes and elements I also had in my treatment," that would be great! I don't think it's imperative that it's 100% Lucas's story, and I never did, but I was just hoping the broad strokes would at least resemble what he had in mind.

I know as a screenwriter myself that a lot changes between even a very detailed outline and a final draft. On my feature film, my first draft was missing one of the 5 main characters in the finished film. It lacked conflict for that reason and it was essential I wrote that character into the movie. A lot of other major things were changed between the basic outline and the finished movie, too, so that's all completely normal as part of any filmmaking process especially something as big as Star Wars. That being said, the "essence" should still be there, I think. Whatever seemed most creatively important about the treatments, I would like to have that in TFA in some capacity.

It would be disappointing to learn that they took the treatment, peed on it, doused it with kerosene, then set it on fire while laughing maniacally and proceeded to do exactly the opposite

Even basic things that Lucas mentioned in interviews past *when he insisted there would never be any sequels* but that if he were to do sequels, it would probably focus on Lucas rebuilding the Jedi Order, Anakin's grandkids, blah blah, etc., that little bit alone would at least be something. You may call some of that "obvious" but it would still somehow be comforting to know, yup, that is the direction Lucas would have went, at least.

To give another analogy, it would be like if I told you to draw a person and you drew a woman in a black dress. I would have probably drawn a guy in a business suit, but oh well, we each drew people. If you drew a purple dinosaur instead, I would think... huh... that's not what should have happened here.

 

Sorry ,I couldnt resist

 

What does it even matter how much Lucas is involved in TFA? There has been good Star Wars without GL and bad Star Wars with GL. His involvement is actually irrelevant except to that small subset of fans who are wrapped up in the cult of Lucas and have convinced themselves that the PT is perfect simply because it comes from him. No wonder they're feeling such internal conflict.

edited to add: I should clarify that there has been good Star Wars with GL, and bad Star Wars without GL as well!

 

I 100% agree. Heir To the Empire is one of the greatest Star Wars stories ever told and it had nothing to do with Lucas. The prequels (in my opinion) leave much to be desired. I'll always be thankful to Lucas for Star Wars, but the idea that only he can write a good Star Wars story is just silly. I hate to use Star Trek as an example, but I think everyone can agree that there were good Trek shows/films after Rodenberry. In much the same way, Lucas created it and laid the foundation. Now, it's time for other talented writers to contribute. In a way, I feel that it's a credit to Lucas that he created something that could transcend it's original creator and be something that can be enhanced and enjoyed by generations to come. It may be hard for him to let go, but I feel that deep down he feels the same way. If he didn't he would not have sold Lucas Film. He's not hurting for money, he had no reason to sell it other than to allow others to explore the universe he created.

 

You mean like this

 

Wow, way to be nasty. This thread was closed because of prequel flame-baiting posts like this before, and you're trying to incite more again? Just because you don't like the prequels it doesn't mean people who do have a "cult of Lucas" and it doesn't mean we think the prequels are perfect or flawless, we just enjoy them like we do any Star Wars.

Quit being so insulting just because people don't agree with you. If you don't care about GL's involvement and think it's irrelevant, why would you even enter this thread anyway?

 

Hmmm... I think you didn't really read my post. Liking the PT is on a whole nother level as thinking they have no flaws and rationalising how the fireplace scene in AOTC is the greatest scene in cinema. There is a group of fans who think GL involvement equals a masterpiece. And these same people are faced with the conflict of reconciling good Star Wars when GL is not involved. This is who I am talking about, not everyone who likes the PT but has kept their sense of perspective about them. It's just a subset, but there's no point in denying that they exist when they have their own echo chamber on these very same boards.